[MUD-Dev] Life

Jeff Kesselman jeffk at tenetwork.com
Sun Jun 1 16:49:46 New Zealand Standard Time 1997

At 04:26 PM 6/1/97 PST8PDT, you wrote:
>: From: Jeff Kesselman <jeffk at tenetwork.com>
>: PvP: Player versus Player play.
>: the social contract is you WILL try to kil leach other out.
>: Pkilling: A nasty, sadistic, bullying form of play
>: the goal is to annoy, abuse amnd thus feel power over
>But then there are "player-kills" which aren't done out of tacit
>contract or to abuse.  If enmity exists, it will raise its head in
>the most decisive form available.  

Nonsense... how masny people have YOu been amd at?? How many have YOU killed??
Its is far froma  "normal character response" as yo useem to be suggesting.

> To get someone barred from promotion or
>kicked off the game because you don't like their style of rol*play,
>is the same in my book as your above Pkilling definition.

The game should define clearly what it is about.  If it is a cooperative
role play game (as define BY TSR in the Players Handbook), such behavior
may well be inapporpriate. If it is defined as innapropriate then some
shoudl get kicekd off for doing it.  That seems obvious, no?

Ild liek to point out that I played for man yyears as a member of a LARGE
RP grou p(30+ people at meetings) that regularly took top honors at Gencon

We all implicitly understood the issues of hwo importnat someones character
was to someone and tehre was an IMPLICTI rule that seemed so obviosu to use
we never even dicussed it or fomrulated it AS a rule...

You could dislike or even hate another character, but we were FREINDS
playign together.  AS we had no urge to hurt our friends, we had "circuit
breakers".  Charaters might abus eeahc other i nall kidsn fo ways but we
ALWAYS foudn an excuse NOT rto kill out each others characters, because
that took something away from our friend.

If you WANT to hurt the other guy, then be honest abotu it and go somehwere
where thaqts appropriate.  If you WANT to play king of the hill, again be
honest and go somewhere were its aprpecoiated.

DON'T bring it itn oa serious roleplay (againas  defined by TSR)
environment and expect people to like you for it.

> Bad things happen - an RPer could take it in stride when
>he's killed.  

NOT when ist the direct result of another player setting out to kill him
out when this is NOT the game he is playing.  I sure as hell wouldn't
accept that.  If its an adult roleplay environment then I expect soemthing
better then random killing 'cause "its cool", "I'm bored", or "I'm evil"...
the three most commonly heard excuses.

The story must go on for RPers -
>if it doesn't, the PKer was right in that whomever owns the largest
><race-dependent anatomy part> has the last say.  Optimistically

So you admit this IS the point of Pkilling?  If so then WHY shoudl I accept
it as a "legitimate' part of my rolepaly envrionment?  This attempt to
"win" flies in the face of all the definitiosn of roleplay gaming.

>I hope I don't sound inflammatory - it's certainly not my goal to
>start anything.  Just letting you know that, lost cause or not, I'm
>still searching for the game philosophy that allows powerplayers
>and RPers run around the same game (almost-harmoniously!).

Okay, go ahead and try. I will satet that I believe, based o nexperiecne
you are doomed to failure... let me give you an analogy...

Suppsoe one person is playign an economic game wher ethe goal is to build
and rent high rises, deal with the politics of city beauracracy, etc...

And ANOTEHR guy is playign an insane truck bomber...

You think they can play in the same game without serious hurt feeings?  I
don't.  UNLESS theya re really playigns epreate games that dont impinge on
each other...

In our current plans we DO have PvPers and Roleplayers in the same
"world"... btu the only palce theny can PvP without the game abusing them
is one city which, by design, no roleplayer will EVER have ANY need to go
AND if they try to take the gang tactics OUT of that city they wuill got
sqaushed by built in stronger forces.

Its really 2 seperate games.

>The way I hope to accomplish this is to focus on the story and
>environment, instead of the other players, and then let the players
>work out how they approach the game - in a role they've defined
>for themselves or as themselves.  I am hoping that focus on the
>resolution of the daunting storylines can be the way for power-
>gamers to be a respected hero, instead of his sword-size as
>proved over the corpses of those he needs respect from.

Sorry but i have to do this...


Have fun.  Ive seen it, I knwo it, the "Im just buuilding a world" approach
does NOt work for a large general population. MAYEB if you hand pick your
group... but that handpicked group coudl get along anywhere then.


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