[MUD-Dev] New Topic: Butthead features

Matt Chatterley root at mpc.dyn.ml.org
Mon Aug 4 07:32:58 New Zealand Standard Time 1997


On Sun, 3 Aug 1997, Jeff Kesselman wrote:

> At 09:49 AM 8/3/97 PST8PDT, you wrote:
> >> How do you control them?
> >
> >Short answer is that you can't, not easily - not without direct
> 
> Heh. I was lloking for discussion, not necc TEH answer. Frankly I don't
> believe any ABSOLUTE answeres exist.  There are however techniques. What
> you suggested (huaman admin intervention0 is definately oen of thsoe
> techniques.

There are absolute answers, they're just not particularly desirable
(extremely harsh punishment systems will ensure you have none of these
players, but you probably wouldn't get a very nice environment either).

H/A intervention is pretty much the best (IMHO) way to cope with out of
game stuff like spamming - not so good for stuff that is permissible in
game, but annoying to players.
 
> IMo avoiding the inclusion of features that are too easy to abuse, or cause
> too much damage WHEN abused, even if they are logical sensical thinsg that
> normal players could have fun with, is another.  But tahts just another
> opinion.

Very much so - it depends on how these features affect the game; and my
opinion differes a little. While this is a good notion to keep in mind, I
find that many 'potentially abusable' features add an amount to the game
for some people, and removing them to prevent any abuse would be a
mistake.
 
> >Nothing at all guarantees you will be at all successful - and avoiding
> >features with anything to add to the game, but potential 'abuse' side
> >effects, is a serious mistake. Other mechanisms are limited, but all you
> 
> Hmm. I woudl disagree here.  A hand gun is a great thign for imrpoving ahnd
> eye coordiantion-- doesn't mean everyone should be handed one though.  In
> general I find this way to dogmatic a POV for my tastes,. I personally
> believe that this is mreo a balancing act then an abolsute-answer type
> question.

Well - you can still exclude features that you don't want, but it depends
on your game. If you plan on a very consistant/realistic world, involving
a popular thief class, you can't really do away the ability for PCs to
pickpocket each other. If pstealing has nothing to add to you game, then
yes, I suggest you remove it, or just not have it in the first place. :)
 
> >I really don't see how you can avoid stuff I'd categorise as 'butthead
> >features'.
> > 
> >> Some exampels of butthead features include..
> >> 
> >> (1) PC pickpocketing of other PCs... always upsets people.
> >
> >But this shafts PC thieves?
> 
> This shafts a PC wh owants to be a pick pocket. "course you cannto be a
> martian in most fantasy MUDS either.  I personally thin kits perfectly
> apporpriate for the judge to say what kidsn of chaarcters he does or deosnt
> want in his game, maybe thats my pen and paper experience talking.

But you allow a 'thief' class, and then disallow them the ability to
wander down a crowded high street and swiftly filch something out of a
pocket in a sort of artful-dodgeresque way?
 
> BUT it doesn't shaft theives as a class-- rememebr that theives as a class
> were taken directly from The Hobbit and Bilbo Baggins... who never picked a
> pocket in his life..

"You've got to pick a pocket or twooooooooo.."

> >But if you have a tport method that should thematically allow this.. and
> >ambushing is fair play, IMHO. It's just using fair means to get an unfair
> >advantage. All is fair in war, physics and chocolate. ;)
> 
> But, in return, if it makes your game unplayable, then yo uhave a problem,
> yes?  Theme is great but IMo it talkes second seat to game design.  I mean
> I coudl define a game whsoe THEME is that everyone is a little formless
> blob with no ability to do anuything lyign on the floor and then implement
> it faithfully-- and have a rpetty damn annoying game that noone wants to play.

If you have a vast amount of people who can teleport (especially
specifically) it points to another potential problem - is magic a little
powerful? If this is the sort of situation you want (very high magic),
then you can either make teleport spells unpredictable (remove the
targets) or live with it.
 
> >
> >> 
> >> 
> >> There are lost mroe but there are some starter catagories.
> >
> >Got anymore to list? :)
> 
> Tons, but I hate to start laundry listing.
> 
> I'ld be more inertested in what OTEHRS think might be "butthead features".

Spamming is the obvious one (and not hard to cope with), but perhaps the
'player whining about things in the game that are more powerful than them'
one is more interesting.

Regards,
	-Matt Chatterley
	http://user.itl.net/~neddy/index.html
"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's
	mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." -George Orwell




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