[MUD-Dev] Re: FW: (Fwd) Bouncing mail

Matt Chatterley matt at mpc.dyn.ml.org
Tue May 5 21:33:47 New Zealand Standard Time 1998

On Mon, 4 May 1998, John Bertoglio wrote:
> From: J C Lawrence <claw at under.engr.sgi.com>
> >From: Raph & Kristen Koster <koster at eden.com>
> >On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Koster, Raph wrote:
> >> [J C Lawrence:]

[Sniped out some excess headers, but kept the From: lines for Attributive

> ><<...personal details deleted here...>>
> >
> >> I have begun to fear however that the list is also functioning to
> >> dissuade as much advancement in the field as it is fostering it, by
> >> burying its members in endless mental masturbation without ever having
> >> them actually go out and produce that next great server/game/idea etc.
> There is enough content is the "There can be only...one" thread for a
> commercial development team to steal to justify funding this list for 100
> years. (I have almost no interest in that thread, personally, but the ideas
> could produce a hell of a game.)
> I do think it is tragic that many people will profit from the contributions
> of the mud development community, but, by in large, not those coders.

Lots and lots in there - probably more than I will ever implement. FWIW to
add to the recent 'commericalism' debates, I'm beginning to *seriously*
consider turning it into a commercial project. I've flitted with the idea
before - this is the first time I've given it *real* consideration. Of
course, this would require a way to offset the initial costs (finding
somewhere to host it, for instance) of running. I also find myself a
little dubious about personal standings with regards to free/payfor
projects, and am perhaps more pondering a 'shareware' notion.

Then again, Shareware is so oft abused..

> >Ah, the peril of the ivory tower. :) I doubt it is dissuading it, so much
> >as it is simply reflecting what woul dhave happened anyway. So you've got
> >a bunch of "great plan" people who at least are talking about their great
> >plan. I don't know that any higher proportion of them would actually be
> >putting it into practice if they DIDN'T have the list... do you? My
> >impression has always been that theoreticians, well, theorize, and those
> >who do, tend to just go do, rather than talk much about it. :) And then
> >there's the few (as we do have some on the list) who did first, and
> >conduct their endless post-mortems, like me. ;)
> >
> >> We keep talking, and not one of us (notable minor exception of Chris
> >> Gray) has yet to actually *produce* anything that has been released
> >> since they joined the list.
> >
> >I started to deny that I fit in that category, then I realized that I
> >joined the list after UO was pretty close to shipping. Possible after it
> >shipped. I don't remember when exactly I joined anymore. :P
> >
> >It's certainly true that I haven't given anything to the MUD community per
> >se, however, in terms of code that can be built upon, etc.
> (This comment is directed at Mr. Koster, but applies to all the active
> members of this list. I have created thousands of lines of code from ideas
> I have gotten from the list. Now, some of the ideas have messed me up like
> JL's 4-layer wear code...falls into the to-good-not-to-ripoff category and
> actually puts me farther behind from public release. But these indulgences
> will make for a much better product. Sure, too many good ideas can be as
> bad as too few, but only if you can't exercise self control. )

Heh. I've not really released anything (except a barely functional shell
of a client, which is currently undergoing some serious mangling to make
it vaguely usable) in the last few years. My current primary online
project (Caffeine) should be opening for alpha testing in the future (ie:
with luck, this year), but chances of code release from that project are
slim to none. :)

[Extreme snippage with a quarter nod to comments on telnet/terminal

	-Matt Chatterley
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.." -John Lennon (Imagine)

MUD-Dev: Advancing an unrealised future.

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