[MUD-Dev] Re: PK and my "Mobless MUD" idea

Marian Griffith gryphon at iaehv.nl
Sun May 10 18:02:18 New Zealand Standard Time 1998

On Wed 06 May, Dr. Cat wrote:

> John Bertoglio wrote:

> I really am starting to think that nobody on this list is interested in 
> doing games that are even remotely like the kinds of games that I'm 
> interested in doing.

I don't agree with you, at least not entirely.  It may be that those
who are simply are not very vocal about it. As this is the muddevel-
opment list  it seems easier to talk about muds  and that may be why
it is done so often.  I do agree with your sentiments about creating
games that cater to other tastes than combat (or power play). Perso-
nally I do believe that part of the solution must lay in having real
in-game consequences to unacceptable behaviour that limit the amount
of damage somebody can do who does not want to play by the rules set
by other players. As it is now on most muds, including ultima online
a player can very easily become a pk-er  with little to no effect on
his character. Killing somebody who does not care about being killed
is not very effective,  especially  if he can recreate his character
rapidly anyway. Wrecking a roleplaying environment and driving those
players away on the other hand  is going to have a lasting effect on
the game.  I think it is no more than fair that pk-ers have the same
extend of 'damage' done to their character as they do to the society
of roleplayers.  At least potentially. Lacking that there is no real
limitation on pk but a real limitation on roleplaying  in games that
allow both.
Personally I am interested in roleplaying games, of the storytelling
or acting variety,  less the D&D (hey, I picked up some fragments of
idiom) variety.  I also belief that to succeed such games need to be
broader than combat oriented, and that in fact combat must be a very
minor part of true storytelling game.  The game, and gameworld, must
be detailed enough  to be able for a character to 'live' in it,  not
merely use it as a convenient array of monsters to defeat.

> That's ok, wildly different kinds of games can, 
> should, and do exist.  It does, however, suggest to me that there's not 
> much common ground for discussion between me and the rest of the list.

*smile* maybe you should start talking about what interests you and
see if you are right about there not being common ground.

> I don't think there's anything bad about games centered around killing, 
> by the way, in case anyone's gotten that impression.  I've probably spent 
> more time developing such games, and am responsible for more player-hours 
> spent stabbing, shooting and blowing up stuff than anyone else on the 
> list.  I still play such games (more often single-player ones than 
> multiplayer, though), and might make more of them some day.  But after 
> over a decade spent making 'em, I'm BORED of that.  And I'm not just 
> dissapointed that my own career lacked the variety of covering a lot of 
> other types of games besides combat - but that my whole INDUSTRY was 
> lacking in it.  To the extent that people who's tastes might run more to 
> other types of games find themselves with few choices, or none at all.

This problem has been touched in several other threads. I have personally
come to the conclusion that because games are designed almost exclusively
for the male taste only guys are buying them.  And that because virtually
the only people who buy games are male, only games for the male taste are
being developed.

> Anyway I'll keep making what I'm making, but ranting about it here is an 
> excercise that doesn't really help me make any forward progress at all.  
> If some of my comments are interesting or useful to others, at least 
> there's some benefit to it.  But I reserve the right to pop back into my 
> gopher hole at any time, and probably will soon.

I for one would be sorry to see you go. While I am not likely to write a
game ever due to a total disability to get along with computers well, it
is important to me to talk about different (and more interesting) games.
As much as possible, with as many people as possible,  in the hopes that
one day somebody sits down  and writes my ideal game. That is also why I
started with the Overlord project on the website.  Not to create a game,
but to collect bits and pieces that I feel should go in,  so they may be
included in some future game.
(website at http://www.iaehv.nl/users/gryphon/index.html)

Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...

Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey

MUD-Dev: Advancing an unrealised future.

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