[MUD-Dev] Re: CGDC, a summary

John Bertoglio alexb at internetcds.com
Thu May 21 00:01:40 New Zealand Standard Time 1998

-----Original Message-----
From: J C Lawrence <claw at under.engr.sgi.com>
To: mud-dev at kanga.nu <mud-dev at kanga.nu>
Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 11:26 PM
Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: CGDC, a summary

>On Mon, 18 May 1998 10:46:56 -0700
>Koster, Raph<rkoster at origin.ea.com> wrote:
>> Under this new system, everyone is an "Innocent" at first. Doing
>> damage to an innocent (either directly or via first-order indirect
>> agents (walls of fire spells, pets or hirelings, summoned creatures,
>> etc) that contributes towards their death results in a chance for
>> the victim to report you, and contribute money towards an eventual
>> bounty. Five reports, and you're not an Innocent anymore. You're a
>> Murderer, show with red all over you to others (you become a big
>> target), and will start to incur serious penalties between 5 and 20%
>> of all stats and skills) when you die until such time as you are no
>> longer a murderer (a lot of playtime can reduce killcount by
>> 1). Kill a murderer, take his head to any city guard in the game,
>> and get the money players donated towards that person's bounty.
>Translation:  You have created a framework which allows system-based
>public record keeping for vigilante justice.  You have also officially
>sanctioned bounty hunters.  Interesting.  Players carrying heads are
>now the most valuable targets in the game.
>Can only those who have been killed by a character donate to the
>bounty against them?  Allowing others to donate would encourage
>gang/capo-style tactics to be used to set and maintain bounties on
>unewlcome individuals. for which the political ends could be

Add this to guild wars and it will get very interesting. The best thing
about this system is it doesn't stop PK, it just buffers it. No one will
risk being red if they can avoid it, especially if they are solo. The
common (an game killing from a commercial point of view) practice of
killing 50 newbies in an evening just won't be a viable strategy. Another
point is the only way you can get rezzed is to go to a particular shrine or
find an evil healer (who is also a major target). Performing any positive
action (like healing or defensive spells) on a murderer tags the helpers as
well. This kills another pk tactic of having "good guys" buddy up with
newbies and lead them to the actual killers. Then the pks attack and the
"good guys" (their allies, actually) provide defensive support and healing
spells. Again, a tacky practice.

The new system will not make the world a lot safer...but it will make the
dangers more reasonable and fun. The killer will not usually waste a kill
flag on a newbie because the risk/reward ratio is so skewed.

>Can a victim donate to his killer's head price more than once (eg
>report and make a small donation, come back later and donate more,
>etc)?  This opens the possibility to rabble rousing, donation drives
>("Help set a high price on XXX's head!"), and bounty scams (set up a
>murder, make a drive for a high bounty, then go kill him/youself).
>What determines the "chance" that the victim has of making a report?

100% if you are inside the time window. (10 RT minutes, I believe.)

>Can you take the head to any guard in any city?  Why virtualise it to
>that extent?  Why not have the bounty tied to the city the report and
>bounty donation was made at, such that a grevious killer may then have
>multiple bounties at multiple cities (translation: localised
>notoriety).  Further (I don't know if you haven't done this), if you
>make the heads persistent objects, and especially if you do the
>multiple city idea, the heads themselves become a form of bankable
>currency.  It becomes easy to see heads being stashed and traded as a
>compact and portable means of representing considerable $$$ sums.
>Create twisted and devious means to recover a head from a city (guard)
>once it has been turned in for the bounty, and you create a whole new
>sub-game of retrieving heads and milking their multi-city bounty.

Heads? Have you sent this idea to the IMF. Might help in Indonesia.
The faq on this subject is extensive and very interesting:


>First thought exploit:
>  I really don't like Bubba.  Let's make some throw-away characters
>that go and attack Bubba and then walk on his sword (ie I start the
>fight but ensure he kills me).  He'll be a Murderer in no time!

You are the agressor to Bubba. Bubba can kill you at any time with no
penalty. It is the same if you steal Bubba's favorite jester's cap. Killing
folks who do you dirt is standard frontier (and UO) justice.

>Second thought exploit.
>  I need more money.  I'll set up a character, kill a bunch of people,
>and then kill one of my own characters, do a rabble rouse to raise
>bounty money before I log my final report against him, and then go
>killmyself at leisure to collect the bounty.

You will be good customer of Origin at this point since you will need two
accounts to accomplishe this feat. You might need an extra machine and
phone line as well. I don't know if the client can run two sessions on the
same machine. I would suspect it can't. Another point, you don't just set
up a char to kill people. You have to build up the char to the point where
it could do any serious damage. All told, a lot of work to run a scam. (See
the "Joy of Villiany" post earlier today...there are better ways to make
money if you are dishonest.)
>> In addition, there's the "gray area" stuff. These are handled by
>> putting a 2 minute window of vulnerability on people who do
>> questionable activities, which we term flagging someone "criminal."
>What exactly is a "window of vulnerability"?  Does this mean they are
>fair game and can thus be killed without stat/kill-count penalty?
>Oooo!  Talk about a delightful con-man setup...

You bet. On the other hand, this is a common anti-newbie tactic already.
"Want to spar to get your skills up?" Newbie says yes, and swings at the
Great Lord. The newbie is now flagged as evil for attacking the lord who
then kills and loots him. Tacky, but popular.

The cool thing about the window is allows for cleverness and lets you run
and hide until things cool off. Criminal activites are somewhat minor but
the "window" means you can get mega-jumped if you get caught.

>> On the other hand, it took a programmer a solid three months full
>> time to catch all the possible wrinkles in the reputation
>> system. The curse of a complex environment is the number of ways
>> players can do harm to one another by indirect means...
>J C Lawrence                               Internet: claw at null.net
>(Contractor)                               Internet: coder at ibm.net
>---------(*)                     Internet: claw at under.engr.sgi.com
>...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...
>MUD-Dev: Advancing an unrealised future.

MUD-Dev: Advancing an unrealised future.

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