[MUD-Dev] Re: Levelless MUDs

Adam Wiggins adam at angel.com
Tue Jun 16 18:16:43 New Zealand Standard Time 1998

On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Holly Sommer wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, jacob langthorn wrote:
> > >   o Remove the level restrictions on eq. This is what the builders
> > >     objected to the most (see below). I am of the mindset that levels
> > >     could still be left in place for deciding relative "power" of the
> > >     eq (and the goodies/bonuses/penalties/etc. which go along with
> > >     the more desirable eq), but that if player characters no longer have
> > >     player levels, then there is no level check for using eq: you
> > >     found it, you can use it.
> > 
> > Okay, call me crazy, but I don't think in 6 years of mud coding
> > that I've ever created a piece of equipment that was "level" based.
> I wouldn't say crazy, just "someone who has never built on a Diku." Are 
> Richard Woolcock and I the only Diku people here? Sometimes it sure feels 
> like it.

Actually, it's a Merc thing.  I've played and coded on plenty of dikus,
but never any that had level limits on equipment.  The other major diku
stock bases besides merc (circle, silly, and diku itself) don't have any
such thing, I don't believe.

> > Strength/skill based, yes, 
> Well, sure. Objects which are heavy require a higher strength to even 
> wield. There are other restrictions which can be added: racial, 
> class-based, alignment-based, etc.

More artificial restrictions.  There are far more subtle, and IMO much
more interesting, ways to do it.

For example: you don't want mages wielding the might Axe of Instant
Decaptitation.  So you make it really heavy.  Along comes a mage with a
high str, wearing plenty of +str gear, who can wield it.  Now make the axe
-10 int, and see if they'll continue to try to use it.  (Although this
assumes that you actually check their int during spellfail rolls.)

> > but I've never said, hey, if you're under level 15 you 
> > can't use this.  Having level based eq seems to be a crazy idea to me.  
> I don't think it's crazy, it's just somewhat artificial, but it works, 
> for certain game settings. Those which rely heavily on eq for individual 
> effectiveness in survival have a need for level-based eq restriction.

IMO it's not necessary.  I was turned off to it (and Mercs in general)
very early in my mud career when I spent over an hour trying to kill a
tough mob by myself, finally managing it only to get the message "Sorry,
you need 10 more levels before you can wield this."

> > But what does age have to do with it?  
> Indeed. What *does* age have to do with it?

Age is a stat that has been put to good use on many a GoP mud.  Combine
D&D-style haste spells and +age gear with permadeath from old age and
increased mana regen/reduced hitpoints at high age, and some real wacky
fun ensues.

>   [snip]
> > (ie., likelyhood of it being of a stronger material than your
> > opponent's weapon).
> OK, but this isn't really related to removing levels from MUDs.

Sure it is.  We're talking about different ways to pace character
advancement that don't rely on levels.  Not all of them may fit in on any
given mud, of course...


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