[MUD-Dev] Re: WIRED: Kilers have more fun

Marian Griffith gryphon at iaehv.nl
Fri Jun 26 20:21:45 New Zealand Standard Time 1998


On Fri 26 Jun, Koster, Raph wrote:

> > From:	Maddy [SMTP:maddy at fysh.org]

> > On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Marian Griffith wrote:
> > >True that you can not (entirely) force people to play nice  by
> > >making it impossible  to be anything else.  However providing
> > >mechanisms for other players to deal with the social misfits 'on
> > >their own terms' plays right into their hands.  You made the game
> > >which was intented a nice roleplay environment into something that
> > >fits the killers. Even players who don't want to fight others are
> > >forced to,  because  that is the only way there is for them to protect
> > >themselves. So in a sense the killers have won.

> Very nice analysis. Of course, the alternative is for the game to play
> the cop, which is actually rather hard to pull off.

*blush* thank you.

> > Why do these mechanisms have to require the players to even lift a
> > sword? 

> Swords (in-game real ones or metaphorical ones like character deletion,
> banning, stat loss, etc etc) tend to be the only thing killers will
> listen to.

Which is a very sad fact if you think about it.

> Either the game wields it in code, the admins wield it, or
> players wield it. And Mike is quite right that if the players wield it,
> it will be other killers mostly who take up the challenge.

Well, actually it was me who wrote it, but that's ok ;)

> > A truely well written roleplaying game, will provide characters with
> > the facilities to create jobs that are needed.  Cities could hire
> > characters as watchmen, to catch and prevent crime.  Travellers could
> > hire bodyguards,
> > Lords could build armies to conquer the evil that exists beyond the
> > city walls, thus providing more land for farming and housing.

> Very few players want to be watchmen, or bodyguards. Even if these
> facilities exist, players will tend not to make use of them. Even if
> they are made use of, the result may not be what you intend. Currently
> on UO, every player has vigilante freedo to whack a criminal in town.
> The result: vigilante ambush parties at key buildings leaving many
> corpses around, causing spam, and destroying the sense of fictional
> immersion.

I guess it is slightly better  than the thing I read  in a player's diary
of his early experiences. (I paraphrase) Ultima is ruled by an atmosphere
of fear.  People are afraid to stop and talk, for fear of being attacked.
I suppose the new system  is a step in the right direction.  I could only
wish that it weren't necessary to create vigilante players.

> > You basically end up with an economy with not only allows the trade of
> > items, but the trade of services.  You may even find that some/most of
> > the killers will prefer to be bodyguards, as from the original article it
> > looked (IMHO) like they only became killers because the alternative of
> > being a tailor was boring.

> Some--few, however. Many are in it for the thrill of danger. Being a
> cop/bodyguard is mostly tedious, fraught with danger but not excitement
> on an ongoing basis (risky but not FUN), and it's underpaid--meaning,
> less rewarding than adventuring and ignoring the problem. In the
> player-run cities of UO, we've recapitulated many of the classic
> problems: player-run cities having problems with absent guards, guards
> who turn out to be in the pocket of the gangs, guards who quit, guards
> who would rather go on vigilate sprees of their own...

> Basically, I was all for the vision you described, Maddy, until I
> actually made a game that supports it. Then I found it was mosly a
> mirage. :(

This is one of the saddest facts  I have read about the possibility (and
future) of true roleplaying games. I think I am going to cry a bit.

Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...

Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey





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