[MUD-Dev] Re: Recursive look

Marian Griffith gryphon at iaehv.nl
Thu Oct 29 21:23:35 New Zealand Daylight Time 1998

In <URL:/archives/meow?group+local.muddev> on Tue 27 Oct, Brandon J. Rickman wrote:
> Meanwhile, the less technically inclined (or those less inclinded to speak
> technically) were discussing:

> On Sat, 24 Oct 1998, Marian Griffith wrote:
> > In <URL:/archives/meow?group+local.muddev> on Fri 23 Oct, Brandon J. Rickman wrote:
> > > Aw, Marian, you're no fun.

> > I am, just not about sexist things. Must be my feminist side acting up.
> > I have the same reaction to movies  where women's armour consists of a
> > fur-rimmed swimsuit.

> Ah, +2 Leather Armor of Ample Cleavage.  Don't know if you've seen the
> kind of avatars people use on Palace (the graphical chat program).  The
> spectacle of a dozen hairless-chested Leonardo DiCaprio's.

You are right, Holywood does it to the guys also. Wonder why that is *grin*
But it is kind of annoying to see it creep up in games also.

> > > Besides, muds already objectify players, at least the characteristics that
> > > are important to social interactions:

> > If this means what I think it means then that is fine. However you are
> > asking for a great deal of trouble  if you treat some group of players
> > as different from another group.

> Well I wasn't making any judgements (at least not yet), but there are
> developing attitudes directed towards cetain types of players.  It is just
> that the groups don't seem to have any real world physical characteristics  
> defining them.  There may be social distinctions, players with more money
> can afford to spend more time online, have better machines, &c.  But the
> groups I was trying to point out were those based on in-game
> characteristics, and the kind of in-game discrimination practiced towards
> those groups.  Not just PKers, but:

> people who just sit and chat all the time - they must think they're so
> cool, but really they're losers.
> people who use macros and clients - don't bother to talk to them, they
> aren't paying attention.

Yes, but they too are prejudices.  And discrimination is discrimination,
regardless who is the victim of it  and why.  Now I do not mean to imply
that you could be guilty of that, the original remark just rubbed me the
wrong way and I responded in kind I suppose.

> > Somehow I don't think this is in the same league as showing every male
> > character  who happens to look at a female character  something in the
> > line of  'You notice she has ... tits'.  (fill in the qualification of
> > your choice), or showing every female character who happens to be seen
> > by a male character '... is undressing you with his eyes.'  Not funny,
> > not necessary and all in all a very bad idea.

> I think most people would agree as to how pointless that kind of activity
> is, especially in a text-based world.  But who knows what kind of
> tolerances and fashions will emerge as virtual worlds develop?  Given the
> boys club that tries to control the computer game industry...

Something like that would be a sure way to drive any woman away from the
computer games even more so than happens already. I think we have talked
in length about my views on the average computer game,  and their appeal
already though.  Sexism is very annoying to encounter in reality (I have
a bit stronger expression for it but I try to keep up appearances ;) and
I have no wish to see any more of it in the little time I spend on line,
than I do already. I am not implying that sexism is worse than any other
form of discrimination, it just happens to be the one I am victim of, so
I feel more strongly about it.  As everybody is discriminated against in
some way  I guess there are a lot of things that should be kept out of a
game ...

Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...

Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey

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