[MUD-Dev] what players want, what I want

Ilya Ilya
Wed Sep 22 14:24:12 New Zealand Standard Time 1999

On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:11:16 -0700 (PDT), Matthew Mihaly wrote:

))On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Ilya, Game Commandos wrote:
))> In another, I believe it was Matthew Mihaly who
))> discussed realism, playability, and how he had
))> never met a player who had complained about
))> inconsistencies in room descriptions (e.g. "But
))> _why_ can't I take the candlestick?  It says
))> it's right here!").
))I think what I said (or intended to say) was that I had never met one of
))my players who complained about such things.

Aye, I think we are straight on that one then.

))It's just a given in Achaea
))that there is way more going on than you can physically interact with. I'm
))not interested in modeling the entire NPC population of a city, for
))instance, as while it'd undoubtedly be cool, it's a waste of time and
))resources. Same goes for things like making every item in a room
))interactable. I don't argue that it wouldn't be a good thing, just that it
))isn't an efficient use of my money and time.

I'll grant that if efficiency is the measure, then we are in
total agreement.

))> My experience has been vastly different from both
))> of theirs.  I have met many who prefer and enjoy
))> roleplaying, and many who have asked just such a
))> question as I made up above, and for whom incon-
))> sistencies are a problem (and removing those
))> inconsistencies is a big plus).
))Well, be this as it may, no one has ever said anything to me about it, and
))I hae a hard time believing that if it was such a big deal, no one would
))have mentioned it to me.

Again, we agree -- and your response is a perfect demonstration
of my later observations.

))Players may, upon initially starting, be annoyed
))by such things, but in my experience, they simply accept it as inherent in
))the world, and move on, very quickly.

In my experience many do, perhaps most, but many do not.

))> (1) it's awfully tempting to extrapolate based on
))>     experience sets based substantially on groups
))>     and the larger the groups the better (groups
))>     whose memberships are likely influenced by
))>     factors described in point 2); and
))Not only is it tempting, but this is the way that all science of every
))type is done, from biology to physics to the soft sciences. Granted, none
))of the observations I have made here are supported by the kind of rigorous
))analysis that should be performed.

Likely "the way it's done" is not taken by you, or anyone else
on this list, as any sort of reasonable support for "how things
should be done."   But I expect the point you are trying to make
is that this is common and reasonable.  I am not so sure about that.
I'd rather say that the best among us are quite capable of both
experiencing the temptation to extrapolate in such a way, AND of
resisting that temptation and constructing (and allowing for)
broader theories based on the likelihood of missing data.

That was really my own point -- we both assert data.  These data
conflict.  These data are extrapolations from our own experience.
To reconcile these conflicting data, we either discredit one set
of data, or else we posit a larger set from which we both draw.

I'd prefer the last option, when possible.
))> (2) we _tend_ to meet others like ourselves, or
))>     get to know others much better who are more
))>     like ourselves.
))Hmm, well, I don't really make friends with my users. I occassionally chat
))to one of them if he or she approaches me, but aside from that, my
))observations are based mainly on player-initiated feedback. They complain
))about other things, so I can't imagine why they wouldn't complain about
))inconsistencies, if they care.

I assume you equate "get to know" with "make friends."  I had not intended
any such equation.  I would submit that your game, like anyone else's, tends
over time to attract players reasonably compatible with your world/game/play
view of things.  And that was the entire point of (2): we tend to skew our
own sample sets, intentionally or unintentionally.

  Ilya, Game Commandos     http://www.gamecommandos.com     

MUD-Dev maillist  -  MUD-Dev at kanga.nu

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