[MUD-Dev] Community Relations

Dundee SkeptAck at antisocial.com
Mon Jan 17 19:53:31 New Zealand Daylight Time 2000


From: Christopher Allen <ChristopherA at skotos.net>
>Though I'm interested in the human dymanics of your question, I'm prefer
not
>to see the specifics of it hashed out too much on this list. I'd prefer to
>see this continue to be a more mud development focused list.

Right.  I've kept quiet, as I've dealt with this and read the various
responses in this thread.

I guess my take on it is that I don't think people changed all that much.
The guy hosting the mud pulled the plug over this without warning and
without explanation.  My thought is, in a month or two, something else would
have happened and he would have pulled the plug over that, so it doesn't
even matter if this incident never occurred, as far as that goes.  I had
five people with megabandwidth offer to host the thing (actually, we're on a
better setup now than we were).

I guess, the main thing that happened, a GM banned a player and referred to
that player as an "idiot whiner" when she did.  The player was banned for
being insulting to me.  I felt that the player was insulting me because I
was sarcastic to her.  I offered to reinstate the player's account and
apologized for being sarcastic.

The player, however, demanded an apology from the GM.  The GM's attitude was
that the player was insulting, and even though my sarcasm provoked that, the
player's sarcasm provoked THAT, and there's nothing wrong with insulting
people who are insulting, or being sarcastic to people who are sarcastic.

The banned player's friend also demanded an apology, mainly for the GM
"cussing" at the banned played.  I've read the log, it never happened.

Essentially my offer was a "do over".  Forget it happened, move on.

The banned player's friend pushed for an apology, lied about what had
happened to other players, in-game and out.  Finally I just banned him and
the idiot whiner.

>However, if you want to exposit some general issues of how admins might
deal
>with incidents, ask questions about what kinds of policies different muds
>use, or what the definition of "banning" means, I'd be more open to that.


General Issue:  What are we doing wrong that lead to this incident in the
first place?  What do you do with a player that will not accept the "final
decision" from the administration (and yet, doesn't quit)?

They made a big issue of the name-calling, but it's ok when they're
basically doing the same thing to us.  I don't get that.

Main thing is, the guy would not let it go.  I mean, to the point of "Fine,
you *can't* play here, then.  Been nice knowing you."

And I go back to my first impulse which is - and seems to fly in the face of
what everyone's been saying - that if it hadn't been this incident, it would
be some other incident.  The guy wouldn't take "shut up" for an answer
(well, phrased more nicely than that) and pushed until I banned him.  Not
just pushed - but lied to other players and generally caused as much
disruption as he could.  My thought is we did the right thing to get rid of
him.  The next incident might be six months down the road, when he's more
invested (socially, more friends, etc.), and banning him will be more
disruptive than it is now.  And if it hadn't been a GM calling his friend an
idiot whiner, it would be over some other incident.  I mean, eventually I'd
make a decision he refused to accept, as in this case, regardless of the
details.

Temporary ban seems to be the consensus here (or "permanent ban, but look
the other way if they sneak back in"), but I can't help but think that if I
let this guy rejoin in a month or three, he's just going to go nuts over
some other incident eventually, refuse to accept whatever I decide to do
about it, and again cause as much fuss as possible.






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