[MUD-Dev] Anarchy Online (was Community Feeling)

Travis Casey efindel at earthlink.net
Mon Aug 6 11:13:00 New Zealand Standard Time 2001

Friday, August 03, 2001, 4:40:54 PM, Hanz, Rob wrote:
> Matt Mihaly [mailto:the_logos at achaea.com] wrote:

>> PvP doesn't just mean combat though. There are a ton of possible
>> PvP elder games. I, for instance, while recognizing your
>> motivations in wanting to fight faraway monsters and explore
>> legendary places, would not be motivated by that for very
>> long. I'd be entertained by it for a bit, but I don't really get
>> a lot of fun out of beating up NPCs. Not into Diablo or Diku. I
>> enjoy PvP activities quite a bit though, whether it's fighting
>> someone in a game with a sufficiently complicated PvP system, or
>> trying to discredit my opponent in an election by spreading false
>> rumours about him, or seducing the girlfriend of my enemy, or
>> participating in the defence of my country, state, city, or
>> family against the hordes of unwashed filthmongers who hate us
>> and who are jealous of us, and who want to steal our pies and
>> taters. Bastards.

> This brings up an interesting point, and one of my pet peeves with
> the "Bartle Types" in general (short version: I don't think you
> can truly understand the Bartle types without having played

> Is it possible that instead of 'killer', the appropriate label for
> that category should be 'competitor'?

I think 'competitor' would be a good label for the category.  PK is
just one way that it comes out.

> This would give us a nice grid with the axes being 'cooperation -
> competition' and 'people - game'.  It would also perhaps open up
> our thoughts as to how to occupy competitors without having to
> invoke PvP - which is arguably the most destructive form of
> competition (since it forces unwilling players into that playstyle
> in most cases).

I mentioned a few such things in passing in my Skotos column a
couple of months back:

  - setting up competing factions in the seting

  - having competitive scenarios, where two or more players (or
  teams) are competing for a single goal

  - use comparison mechanisms like "top score" or "fastest
  completion" lists

> I would make the argument that trying to be the first player to do
> x or y in a game, or outdo your rival guild or whatever is just as
> much competition, and caters to the same drives, as direct PvP,
> except for the griefing aspects.

I'd say that one unfortunate consequence of naming that group
'killers' is that it makes people associate them with grief players.
Not all people who enjoy PK are grief players -- and, for that
matter, there are a lot of ways of putting grief on someone that
don't involve PK.

Travis Casey
efindel at earthlink.net

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